THE I.R.N. ANSWER -- Vol 3, #6 A N S W E R S T O T H E I R N Q U E S T I O N ----------------------------------------------------- "What is the nature of consciouness?" Volume THREE, Number SIX March 24, 1993 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "- all the gnus that have fits to Prince -" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- LETTER FROM THE EDITOR A post-script found at the end of a letter on paper bearing the embossment, - From the desk of "GOD" - : P.S. Please do not refer to Lucifer in any future correspondence. He is no longer with our firm. -- ASRDW1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM -- ACAD2A::PSSIB "Derelict of Dialect" "What is the nature of consciousness?" Hmm... Lemme think a minute. Let's break it down, shall we? Nature: 1 - individuals thought of as a group because of a common quality 2 - a basic underlying or constituting entity, substance, or form 3 - the complex of especially mental and emotional qualities that distinguish an individual 4 - the totality of physical entities Consciousness: 1 - serious and heedful attentiveness ***** Wait, this message ain't done yet!!! ***** R: Oh, but you're wrong. FROM -- ACAD2A::RSJFG "Jerimiah Johnson" First off, let me ask you a question... What's with these CHEESEY questions? you in a philosophical mood or something? ;) The nature of Consciousness is realizing your own mortality. R: Is that "realizing" as in "becoming aware of" or as in "achieving the goal of" ? If it's the latter, then what you're saying is that you don't wake up until you're dead. "Gee Mommy, I want to be dead when I grow up just like Grandma!" FROM -- ACAD2A::ASSRD "Adrenaline Junkie!" Well, whenever I come across a word that I cannot define from the top of my head, I think of Delyn Chambers, 11th grade Honors English at Service High School, and the wonderful gift of the OED (Oxford English Dictionary).. But, enough of traipsing down memory lane.... Consciousness : Choosing to accept responsibility for something, without attributing (read: BLAMING) other people, places, fire hydrants, extra-terrestrials, Out-Of-Body Experiences, Demons and oter possessions. In short, owning up to it ... Yeah, it was my fault, what are YOU gonna do about it.......?! Answer #2 Uh, I dunno. R: So criminals who did the deed but do not fess up are unconscious? Wow, that would make the prison system a lot less complicated. Rows and rows of little cots and IV's. And they wouldn't need cable. Response #2: Uh, you dunno. FROM -- ACAD2A::ASJLH "The Unapologetic VIRGIN!!!!" Why do you always ask these things when I have a hangover??!!!!@!!? R: Because that's the only time that you'll let me in your house without A) making a pass at me B) throwing up on me C) making a pass at me, and then throwing up D) making a pass at me, upon which I throw up E) throwing up, upon which I make a pass at you FROM -- ACAD2A::ASBWC "Brady W. Clark - UAA Math VAX" Didn't you mean WHO is the nature of consciousness? Or maybe WHEN? Actually the question is moot because, as everybody knows, consciousness is totally unnatural. Can I have a cookie? R: Hmm ... I could cite the old argument of "Since we are products of Nature, then anything that we do is a result of Nature ... therefore nothing we do or are can be unnatural." It's much more satisfying, however, to just hide your cookie. FROM -- ACAD2A::ASGDS "Pooh Styxx" Consciousness is the state in which ones hallucinations are kept to the bare minimum. This state is one in which the most frequent encounters with the so called reality occur. This can be contrasted with both sleep (unconsciousness), and medidation (subconsciousness). We know have three different levels of contact with reality... Consciousness- contact with "reality" Subconsiousness- tenuous contact at best, this state is also known as meditation or Royceness. Unconsciousness- The state wherein ones essance loses all contact with the phenomenon known as reality. . "People who need drugs to Hallucinate, just aren't trying hard enough." R: "I'm just imagining you, I'm just imagining you ..." "...and whatever you do, don't imagine that this welcome mat is actually thousands of flesh-eating blood worms." -- Skag, after he accidentally gave his roomie Bubba some LSD FROM -- ACAD2A::ASFJP "Fred Polsky -- Phish.head" The Nature of Consciousness? Caffeine. You needed to ask? R: Hmm ... so that was the look on Juan Valdez' face in those commercials. It was the sheer bliss of Nirvana. And here I thought it was because the donkey finally said "Yes." FROM -- ACAD2A::ASDRT "Born-Again Coward" The thing that returns with glaring pain after a hard night of drinking. R: No, that's usually a rash. FROM -- ACAD2A::AXSBC "PANDA KAHN" Easy answer: I think, therefore I think I am, I think? Average answer: I dreamed I was a man who dreamed he was a butterfly, but when I awoke I did not know if I was a man dreaming he was a butterfly, or a butter fly dreaming he was a man who dreamt he was a butterfly. Difficult answer: Hey! I ordered a cheese burger with fries. This ain't got no fries! References: Tao of Pooh: Zen principles explained by Winnie the Pooh Tae of Piglet: Zen principles explained by Piglet Tae for Pooh, and Pooh for tae, a philosophy for you, a girl for me: stupid filk version of stupid song from the 70's. Actualy not relevent, but cited here because it was sighted near here. R: What if Piglet had a dream that he was a cheesburger missing its fries beind eaten by Descartes with a hangover? Recursive consciousness. Who said that? FROM -- ACAD2A::ASRST "Darkside Cowboy" The nature of consciousness, did this question grow out of the discussion you, Rod and I had about senses and computers and the evolution of self awareness? I believe the nature of consciousness, which is to say thing which defines it, and not its chemical or spiritual genesis is this: consciousness is the vehicle by which a being succeeds (aha!) in creating the world around him. Now by using the word "create" I am opening myself up for a load of pointless maundering about "what if the whole world were just a figment fo my imagination" but just hold on a moment. Every consciousness perceives the world around it, and then tries to put its perceptions in some sort of framework. That both fits in with its past perceptions and can be used to act on what it believes its perceptions will be in the future. Now the problem with this is that there is NO way to for us to be sure we percieve things identically as another individual. That "Framework" is the sum total of all of a single consciousness' experiences, past and present. and is therefore our universe. By perception, therefore, every consciousness "creates" a universe for itself. I wish there were a better word for it in English. Or any other language I knew. but I don't think there is, so I will stick with "create." The real question is not "What is the nature of consciousness?" but "Is there a way in which multiple consciousnesses can interact on a more basic level than through the media of their respective universes?" WE'VE GOT A THING THAT'S CALLED RADAR LOVE. WE'VE GOT A WAVE IN THE AIR . . I have to say, I believe there is. Thank You R: There is a method of communication that transcends the limitations of all known media, a channel that supersedes the subjective universe of each individual and allows two or more of them to achieve utter synchronicity of thought and perspective. But the envelope was ripped, so we sent it back. FROM -- ACAD3A::ASRDR "Yrf! Narf! Eargh!" "What is the nature of consciousness?" There is no nature to consciousness , due to the very fact that consciousness is completely unnatural in and of itself. Humans appear to be the only species on Earth to have evolved a true consciousness...with the number of other species around, something truly natural would have evolved in more than just one measly little group. Therefore, consciousness must have been foisted off on the human race (just who is winning that race, by the way?) by some other, most likely extraterrestrial beings. Probably the very ones I saw coming out of that spaceship that landed in my backyard a few questions ago...just dropping back in to check on our progress is all. Due to what they found, I'd say we're due for an overhaul in...oh...a week or so. Sorry to break the news to y'all... Wait a sec...which question am I answering here? Oh, yeah... Never mind, I lost track. Having a flashforward...being affected by all the drugs I'm going to take sometime in the future...woo (to coin a phrase). Woody R: I remember you saying something like that later on next year. It wasn't funny the first time. FROM -- ACAD3A::FSTJF "ho boy" the nature of consciousness is an existence all its own... it exists in a realm of non-existence... thus proving that consciousness is that which exists in us all as the all knowing brain which doesn't tell us anything because it in fact doesn't really exist... R: Kinda makes you want to go and ... oh, never mind. FROM -- ACAD2A::PSCAC "Severian" To be able to understand the nature of consciousness, one must know what the word means... CONSCIOUSNESS: n. the totality of ones thoughts, feelings, and R: Became unconscious in the middle of that one? Or was it censored by the Xtians during transmission? Has anyone seen Christopher lately? (gulp.) FROM -- ACAD3A::FSJJP "His Royal Highness Corwin" You're just a figment of my vivid imagination .. a horrible dream to be exact ask me when I'm awake R: You have asked me the one thing that you must never ask a nightmare ... NEVER invite them to cross the barrier between sleep and wakeness ... it's like inviting a vampire into your home ... and once that barrier is broken, ALL of your nightmares can follow suit, regardless of how much you scream or pinch yourself, and you will be consumed in a maelstrom of self-conjured horror and damnation that will make your previous nightmares seem like Hayley Mills movies. Isn't that your alarm clock buzzing? FROM -- ACAD3A::FSMLM2 "Rebelheart" mean.... thats what the nature of conciousness is .. just flat out mean. R: No, no, "consciousness," not "Khan Shushness." People are always getting those two confused. Although he *was* mean. Bit the heads off of baby rabbits. Well, not "bit," exactly. Dental care was notoriously bad in Mongolia in those days. More like "gummed." FROM -- ACAD2A::PSCAC "Severian" So that we, and other people, know when we are unconscious???! R: If there's no noticeable difference, then who cares? In fact, who will be awake enough to care? In fact ... (thud) FROM -- ACAD2A::AXLAS "Silly Inane Afterglow" _Stream_Of_Conciousness_ In the beginning, there was darkness, and from this darkness sprout (like some terrible evil--dark, foreboding, festering, pestulant, repulsive, and otherwise quite nasty--it was an evil the likes of which no sentient being had ever had the forethought to think about, or any higher lifeform had seen fit to become aquainted with: It was evil incarnate) a seed: small as a peice of dirty gum (albiet, it wasn't sticky or gooey like gum, and only vaguely tasted somewhat like trident sugar-free, but that IS a different story) that had been chewed up, swallowed, regurgitated, and placed on the bedpost for the next mornings adventures; and yet it seemed as though the gum=seed idea was not far off, for the seed had found home in a package of wrigleys doublemint gum (double your evil, i guess), where, after being chewed for an indeterminant amount of time, and having been deposited on the bedpost for the nights slumber, it begain to grow into a form--not some kind of paperwork, you ninney, leave that to governments--that only superficially resembled Winston Churchhill, after his vacation in the United States (but before his second marriage, of course, for everybody knows that Churchhill went downhill after his second marriage; but I suppose that most people would start discorporating upon knowledge that they were supposed to spend the rest of their lives with the person that Winston actually did); but Churchhills visit to the U.S. is not what this story is about, it is about a seed that grew into a clone--or rather a pseudo-clone--of Winston Churchhill, that grew up to be an Olympic Gold-medalist in the Luge: A sort of bobsled looking thing, but more dangerous (not Winston Churchhill, although he has been mistaken for other items of equal weight and/or proportion, but the luge) as it could cause bodily harm at any particular moment. And after a long, happy life of winning the Luge, he died. The End R: It will take me a long time to grok this in fullness. And then, once I have cherished it and hated it, I will hunt you down and destroy you. The pseudo-clone of Churchhill did NOT die; it merely morphosed into a more acceptable form. I've seen you smoking those cigars. FROM -- ACAD2A::FSMJB5 "Marbear" When I return to consciousness, I'll get back to you.....(Which maybe in a few days, weeks, months, years, or never.....one never knows.) R: So how did you type this? Is there a new apparatus that converts the beta waves of sleep into typed characters? Woo, maybe that's how Leif wrote his answer. Maybe that's how I'm writing this right n 7. awlrgna alrgjbnawr kgÄjab24;7kb 0;Ÿargibukj.er,62“b3747iyvf ž ®ÅÆ rhn awe45 ;o‡ubfrkbser5yw3gnbk etjae35 (stupid #&!@*?# alarm) FROM -- ACAD3A::ASDMF "The Electric Messiah" Consciousness? Is that the state between sober and plastered? Hmm...Consciousness....Pondering....I guess that is just a state of mind. Considering your unconscious though is more powerful than your conscious thought well i rather be unconscious all the time....Could that explain for my increase in sleeping? Or could that be lack of sex? Nah.... If someone could tell me if I am Conscious or not I would gladly name my first born after whomever....:) R: You are conscious. You must now name your firstborn "Rumpelstiltskin." FROM -- ACAD2A::ASCSJ "Curtis S. Jewell" It is the nature of consciousness to be as indifferent as possible to everyone in it... however, it can take interest in certain people, like Moi... and maybe Royce, too... Anyways, when in doubt, consciousness is indifferent. Consciousness is also different (different and indifferent are not opposites) in that it treats everybody differently... That is also the origin of the saying "Some people catch the elevator, and others just get the shaft...". Anyways, THAT is the true nature of consciousness... R: I don't think I want to answer that. Just to treat you differently, I'm not going to say anything funny fnord in your answer at all. So there. FROM -- ACAD2A::ASWDP "a dimension of time and space" Consciousness is realizing that, if you do not eat it slowly, the last slice of pizza will not go far. R: How far do you want it to get? You cruel, heartless fiend! Why don't you just kill it quickly, and get it over with, instead of letting it drag its poor meat sauce across the table in piteous agony? Hey, that would make a cool movie. FROM -- ACAD2A::ASRBB "The Firebird (Rick)" Well, hmmm... It's certainly not the same as the consciousness of nature, is it? If what we dream when we sleep is reality, then what can we say of life? To sleep to perchance to dream... I went out with a girl for a short time...we had trouble getting along... I really wasn't into meditation and she wasn't really into being alive. :) R: So we compromised ... She meditated about being dead, and I thought about killing her. FROM -- ACAD2A::ASLJL "The Lady Rhavyn Of The Art" My answer to what is consciousness Data learning to dream. As seen in the the episode where Data gets a shock from something found in the Gamma quadrant, and Worf searches for his father in a romulin ( I know this is mispelled) prison camp. other than that I have no answer to that question that would make sense Lady Rhavyn R: Romulin ... isn't that what lets Romulans metabolize sugar? Data isn't really conscious ... he just works really hard at faking it. And that wasn't dreaming ... Data just learned Programmer's Rule #1: "If you find a bug and it doesn't seem to do any harm, call it a feature and charge twice as much for it." FROM -- ACAD2A::ASMMS "The Swan Goddess" The nature of consciousness...would that be "nature" in the NeoClassical sense or in the Romantic sense? Since I am a childnymph of the latter, I will answer that it is a serene stream. Royce, don't feel you have to comment on this answer since I believe it to be one of my most tedious...but...maybe if you can imagine the stream in plaid it might spark some interest. R: Consciousness is a serene stream. (I'm just trying it out.) Nah, I don't buy that. Otherwise I would be thinking about trout and weeds and very small rocks all the time. And Scotsmen. FROM -- ACAD2A::ASSPK "Skag" Frontal lobotomies.....gardening of the mind....... R: Electroshock therapy ... mulching of the garden of the mind Hallucinogens ... mutations of the garden of the mind Freudian analysis ... feeling the tomatoes of the garden of the mind ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANSWERS THAT MISSED LAST WEEK'S QUESTION: "Why is up?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM -- ACAD2A::ASJRB "POWDERED TOAST MAN!!!" A fish. R: Yes, but where did the midget come from? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------